Charlie Brown’s parents.
So lately in my youth group, there has been a hot topic issue going around.
Calvinism.
But the hot button isn’t really Calvinism (though some might say it is), what the problem really lies in is the topic of predestination vs free will.
Apparently, some kids in the youth group do not like the idea of a God who predestines everything, who decided before time began who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. And because of this, there are a handful of the youth who bring the topic up constantly (that isn’t to say that there aren’t a couple of “pro-predestinationers” who do the same).
The problem I see is: why bother? Both sides are steadfast in their viewpoint, either wrong or right. Neither side will really give up any slack. If there is a verse that uses the word “elect(ed)”, a free will advocate will claim that it is faulty translation.
A quick disclaimer: Although it seems like I’m ragging extra on free will advocates, this is only because I side with the viewpoint that believes that God predestined everything (including who goes to heaven). There are definitely a couple of kids who side with this view who attack the opposite side just as much.
So I say again- why bother arguing? The Bible is clear on such matters.
The Apostle Paul writes in 1 Timothy 1:3-6…
As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God’s work—which is by faith. The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk.
The youth who persist to argue each side of the free will vs predestination debate have turned to meaningless talk. The knowledge of whether or not God elects people to salvation or not will not affect your ability to love your neighbor. God commands you to love your neighbor regardless of the status of their faith- saved or not.
The closest thing I can liken the situation to is: those people who keep talking about God’s sovereignty (in the sphere of predestination), the freedom of the will, or the lack thereof- you sound like Charlie Brown’s parents to God.
Mwamp mwamp mwamp. Your debates bring God no glory. And I am confident in assuming that they do not edify your faith, because you continue to argue about it.
You know who you are- whether you are a part of my youth group or not. Turn your eyes solely on Christ, and emulate Paul when he wrote
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you Jesus Christ and Him crucified. [1 Corinthians 2:2 ]
jimmypurchase said,
May 16, 2008 at 12:14 pm
God didn’t know you were going to write this!
This changes everything!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unrestrained Mess said,
May 16, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Yeah- I try to throw a monkey wrench in His plans every now and again.
You know, because He isn’t all knowing or anything.
And Rob Bell is a real man.
Emily said,
May 17, 2008 at 3:22 am
Strong. Its important to draw the line when it comes to debates. Stop and refocus… It is more important to lead others to Christ than debate how they will get there! The Great Commission …
chris said,
May 17, 2008 at 3:24 am
Good thoughts yo. Here is what I know, I have heard a lot of this stuff going around and it is time for it to stop. We are so close to summertime and we have got to get our focus off of ourselves and our focus on the lost and Jesus. If I walk up on anyone having this discussion, I am breaking it up. If we spent half the energy talking about ways to bring our friends to Christ, we would see a lot of people coming to know Jesus.
Love God and Love others. That is our new topic of conversation. If you hear it, change it! Thanks for bringing it up broseph.
lovegaby said,
May 17, 2008 at 11:27 am
Wow Byran I am so glad you realized this!! This whole “thing” has been really unsettleing for me!! This entry makes me so happy!
I am a little hurt though if you meant Kendra and me when you said a “handful of the youth who bring the topic up constantly”. I know Kendra is a huge avocate for 1 Timothy 1:3-6, Titus 3:9, 2 Timothy 2:14, and other verses like them, we’ve actually been collecting them because we are so againts piontless debates that don’t go anywhere or do anything but confuse!! I can honestly say I aviod the subject has much as possible at surge (you of all people can’t blame me for atleast trying to stand up for what I believe with maybe one statment when it does come up though) and I get knots in my stomach when the subject does somehow come up, it definitely does not come up because of Kendra or me though…
But yes wonderful entry!! :]
lovegaby said,
May 17, 2008 at 11:40 am
It veerry hard for me to not make a comment about Jimmy and yours comment. haha Just throwing that out there!!
Unrestrained Mess said,
May 17, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Don’t feel too hurt.
Because that umbrella statement includes (off the top of my head) you, Kendra, Vargas, me, Jordan, and Josh Ward.
Those are the main instigators I can think of.
Just calling us out when we deserve it.
lovegaby said,
May 17, 2008 at 8:47 pm
ohh i feel so much better hahah
Maybe I do deserve to be called out at times, even though I can honestly say I would never bring it up at surge even with someone that agrees with me, I guess I might not be the first to try and defuse the conversation so I’ll give you that. But Kendra!! I’m sorry unless she’s a totally different person when I’m not around, I disagree competely that shes apart of the “handful of the youth who bring the topic up constantly”!!!
jimmypurchase said,
May 18, 2008 at 1:49 am
Going on what Chris said,
I have a picture in my head of a guy who stands at the corner of a intersection wearing a sign that says, “God loves you so much, that he gave you free-will, so you can be saved by choosing God”.
And another guy standing on the other side with a sign that says, “God loves you so much that he gave you no ‘free’ will so that you might come to God”.
Both spend time yelling at the other by use of a bullhorn about Human responsibility and God being in control over all things.
Mean while hundreds of unsaved people drive by in cars, watching …. They are unnoticed by the open theist and the Calvinist, who in the midst of throwing rocks at each other are forgetting the Gospel. If the Gospel was in the “kitchen” and out of their “foundation”, then they would have noticed the God given opportunity to preach Jesus crucified.
discussing… or as some would put it, arguing. « I am a failing, messy, missional, reformed Christian who needs prayer said,
May 18, 2008 at 2:25 am
[...] or as some would put it, arguing. My good friend Brian Carro wrote a great blog about this. A few of the people at the youth group at my church, started caring about some [...]
Discussing…. or as some would call it Arguing « I am a failing, messy, missional, reformed Christian who needs prayer said,
May 18, 2008 at 2:33 am
[...] Discussing…. or as some would call it Arguing My good friend Brian Carro wrote a great blog about this. [...]
Unrestrained Mess said,
May 18, 2008 at 5:34 am
Mah bad Gabs!
I actually only included Kendra because you brought her up. I was kind of like “Well- if you say so”.
Kind of a misunderstanding there.
ATTENTION ALL: KENDRA DOES NOT ARGUE.
Like fo rillz.